Seder: Christian Bread and Wine!

[Colin2000]

Hi All,

While David is celebrating it in the good company of the President of the United States of America for is it the third time in the White House?

We followers of The Way need to direct our attention to The Passover Meal as Christians too!

Bread, Bitter herbs, Wine, 

1.  Well we have the Bread the Body of Christ, pure flesh that does not need any bitter herbs to cleans the soul for His flesh is as clean as the risen snow!

2.  Never the less our herbal remedy could be compared with Repent for we have not got pure whiter than white flesh have we.  So we need to remind ourselves of The taking of the broken bread in The Massing together in the Eucharist!

3.  The Wine,  He said of it, "This is my Blood shed for thee!"  Could it be that we as Christians take the Chalice and drink The Wine/Blood to not only in the Bread purify our flesh as white as snow but also in the Wine wash out the Crimson sin also in it too!

Interesting thoughts for Easter perhaps when not only do we have The LORD JESUS present in The Temple of our Hearts as The High-Priest of Melchizedekian Priesthood as well,

1].  Not only do we remember our forebears and ourselves enslaved in our shared portion of Original Sin as with passover but we still mark ourselves in The Blessed Sacrament with His Blood.  Not on the outside but on the inside where the sin lies deep in our Hearts perhaps!

2].  But what happens after The Sacraments?  Could it be that we have to symbolically need also to flee Egypt and go on our way on The Way toward our goal, Jerusalem! But we do not need to go on pilgrimage for He has come to us has He not!

3].  So where do we travel from here, how about into the World of People to tell them of The Good-news, that Christ is risen, yes, "He is risen indeed!"
But LORD I want a Cloud by day and a fire by night to guide me on my way after Seder!  Never satisfied our we?

How about modern day Apostles pointing the way!  But of course we have The HOLYGHOST to keep us company have we not, AND HOLY SCRIPTURE TOO!!! .... !

The tradition of using Two loafs for the double portion reminds me of The Two Loaf's and where does the Five fishers fit in here I wonder?  The Two loaf's when plaited symbolic of the Bridal-wreath We in The Church our The Bride of Christ perhaps!

Nineteenth day of Nisan, (March,April), with adjustments in our Calender to get us to Thursday evening?

Yours in Christ,

Colin.

PS.  The Bread and The Wine: Isaiah 44:6-8 ESV.

PPS. As White as snow: 
"Come now, let us reason together, says The LORD:
though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow;
though they are red like crimson;
they shall become like wool."
[Isaiah 1:18 ESV.].

PPPS. Guidance to jolt memory taken from: [Judaism/Talmudic Judaism:Religious Observances, Isidore Epstein, Penguin, Harmondsworth, England. 1959, p171].   

[Ruth Ann]

The Passover that God had the children of Israel eat was so rich in strong shadow of what was to come!

“The LORD said to Moses and Aaron in Egypt, “This month is to be for you the first month, the first month of your year. Tell the whole community of Israel that on the tenth day of this month each man is to take a lamb for his family, one for each household. If any household is too small for a whole lamb, they must share one with their nearest neighbor, having taken into account the number of people there are. You are to determine the amount of lamb needed in accordance with what each person will eat. The animals you choose must be year-old males without defect, and you may take them from the sheep or the goats. Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the people of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight. Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs. That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast. Do not eat the meat raw or cooked in water, but roast it over the fire—head, legs and inner parts. Do not leave any of it till morning; if some is left till morning, you must burn it. This is how you are to eat it: with your cloak tucked into your belt, your sandals on your feet and your staff in your hand. Eat it in haste; it is the LORD’S Passover.

“On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn—both men and animals—and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the LORD. The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are; and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. No destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt.

“This is a day you are to commemorate; for the generations to come you shall celebrate it as a festival to the LORD—a lasting ordinance. For seven days you are to eat bread made without yeast. On the first day remove the yeast from your houses, for whoever eats anything with yeast in it from the first day through the seventh must be cut off from Israel. On the first day hold a sacred assembly, and another one on the seventh day. Do no work at all on these days, except to prepare food for everyone to eat—that is all you may do.

“Celebrate the Feast of Unleavened Bread, because it was on this very day that I brought your divisions out of Egypt. Celebrate this day as a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. In the first month you are to eat bread made without yeast, from the evening of the fourteenth day until the evening of the twenty-first day. For seven days no yeast is to be found in your houses. And whoever eats anything with yeast in it must be cut off from the community of Israel, whether he is an alien or native-born. Eat nothing made with yeast. Wherever you live, you must eat unleavened bread.”

Then Moses summoned all the elders of Israel and said to them, “Go at once and select the animals for your families and slaughter the Passover lamb. Take a bunch of hyssop, dip it into the blood in the basin and put some of the blood on the top and on both sides of the doorframe. Not one of you shall go out the door of his house until morning. When the LORD goes through the land to strike down the Egyptians, he will see the blood on the top and sides of the doorframe and will pass over that doorway, and he will not permit the destroyer to enter your houses and strike you down.

“Obey these instructions as a lasting ordinance for you and your descendants. When you enter the land that the LORD will give you as he promised, observe this ceremony. And when your children ask you, ‘What does this ceremony mean to you?’ then tell them, ‘It is the Passover sacrifice to the LORD, who passed over the houses of the Israelites in Egypt and spared our homes when he struck down the Egyptians.’” Then the people bowed down and worshiped. The Israelites did just what the LORD commanded Moses and Aaron.

At midnight the LORD struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well. Pharaoh and all his officials and all the Egyptians got up during the night, and there was loud wailing in Egypt, for there was not a house without someone dead.
During the night Pharaoh summoned Moses and Aaron and said, “Up! Leave my people, you and the Israelites! Go, worship the LORD as you have requested. Take your flocks and herds, as you have said, and go. And also bless me.”

The Egyptians urged the people to hurry and leave the country. “For otherwise,” they said, “we will all die!” So the people took their dough before the yeast was added, and carried it on their shoulders in kneading troughs wrapped in clothing. The Israelites did as Moses instructed and asked the Egyptians for articles of silver and gold and for clothing. The LORD had made the Egyptians favorably disposed toward the people, and they gave them what they asked for; so they plundered the Egyptians.

The Israelites journeyed from Rameses to Succoth. There were about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children. Many other people went up with them, as well as large droves of livestock, both flocks and herds. With the dough they had brought from Egypt, they baked cakes of unleavened bread. The dough was without yeast because they had been driven out of Egypt and did not have time to prepare food for themselves.
Now the length of time the Israelite people lived in Egypt was 430 years. At the end of the 430 years, to the very day, all the LORD’S divisions left Egypt. Because the LORD kept vigil that night to bring them out of Egypt, on this night all the Israelites are to keep vigil to honor the LORD for the generations to come.
The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, “These are the regulations for the Passover:
“No foreigner is to eat of it. Any slave you have bought may eat of it after you have circumcised him, but a temporary resident and a hired worker may not eat of it.

“It must be eaten inside one house; take none of the meat outside the house. Do not break any of the bones. The whole community of Israel must celebrate it.

“An alien living among you who wants to celebrate the LORD’S Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat of it. The same law applies to the native-born and to the alien living among you.”

All the Israelites did just what the LORD had commanded Moses and Aaron. And on that very day the LORD brought the Israelites out of Egypt by their divisions.”
(Exodus 12:1–51 NIV)

This Egypt stay and the slavery was prophesied by God.

“Then the LORD said to him, “Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own, and they will be enslaved and mistreated four hundred years. But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves, and afterward they will come out with great possessions. You, however, will go to your fathers in peace and be buried at a good old age. In the fourth generation your descendants will come back here, for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure.””
(Genesis 15:13–16 NIV)

As Exodus 12:40 said, Israel stayed in Egypt 430 years and the prophecy by God to Abram was for 400 years. It was when the Covenant was made with Abram for the Land that would be a possession of the descendants of Abram.

Isn't God amazing?

Isn't our Bible just full of surprises?
It is for me. Just was this this morning.

[Ruth Ann]

So sorry I got down a rabbit trail again.

But I was reading over the Passover Seder that my dear brother Abraham provided for us. I have attended his Seders twice and I am always blessed with his words.

The leaven is first removed from the house. Seems to me that leaven is always sin. As with the Lord's Supper, I ask the Lord to forgive my transgressions and turn from those sins before I eat.

Hands are washed...
The Seder is started with llighting of candles. “Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light for my path.”
(Psalms 119:105 NIV)

The 1st cup of wine is drank. The cup of sanctification. ““Therefore, say to the Israelites: ‘I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the yoke of the Egyptians. I will free you from being slaves to them, and I will redeem you with an outstretched arm and with mighty acts of judgment.”
(Exodus 6:6 NIV)

The roasted shankbone is on the plate to remember the paschal lamb. The word for the shankbone is zeroa which means forearm. And all through scripture our Lord was the arm of God. He was God's love in action. Blessed Yeshua Massiach.

The story of redemption is told. From God's choosing Abraham through to Moses and the people that would be holy.
Then the plagues

Greens dipped in salt water are eaten. “Take a bunch of hyssop, dip it into the blood in the basin and put some of the blood on the top and on both sides of the doorframe. Not one of you shall go out the door of his house until morning.”
(Exodus 12:22 NIV) Interesting. Blood is made of salt water.

3 pieces of Matzah are eaten. The 2nd middle matzah is the Passover Lamb, important since the Temple destruction in 70AD ended the proper sacrifice of the Passover Lamb. The middle matzah is broken. Half of it is returned to the matzah holder that holds the 3. The other half is wrapped in linen and hidden, buried sometimes. Seems to represent our Lord, half broken and buried, left from the Trinity.

Call to eat the Passover. "Let all who hunger come and eat!"

The 4 questions. Why is this night different from all other nights? We were slaves!
Why do we eat such unusual foods as Matzoh, the unleavened bread, and Maror, the bitter herbs?
Why do we dip green herbs in salt water?
Why do we open doors?
Why do we hide and then eat the Afikomen?

A little wine is poured out of the cup. The plagues. God's wrath on Egypt. God's wrath poured out on Yeshuah as he took our sins on him...
"Let us remember and never forget." “On that day tell your son, ‘I do this because of what the LORD did for me when I came out of Egypt.’”
(Exodus 13:8 NIV)

Amen and hallelujah! Read Psalms of Hallelujah, Psalms 113-118)
Read the Tem commandments. (Exodus 20:1-17)
God's redemption did not end with leading them out of Egypt. He brought the to Mt Sinai and gave them in place of Pharoah's laws that led to death, the Law of God which brings slife and restores the soul.

Thankful prayer over the wine and bread. (Kiddish)

2nd cup of deliverance. We praise God for the deliverance of the people from the evil one, Pharoah. if God had not delivered the children of Israel from the evil one, our Messiah would not have come to Israel. We give great thanks to God for this deliverance.

The breaking of the bread. Small pieces of the bottom matzoh are given to everyone after the blessing, to eat.

Eating bitter herbs. Maror. (bitter) Take a piece of lettuce and fill it with horseradish. This is the bitter sandwich. Some dip it into the charoset to soften the effect. (mixture of nuts, apples representing the mortar Israel used to build for Pharoah). The horseradish brings tears. It brings remembrance of the affliction under Pharoah.

The Hillel (hallelujah) sandwich. To represent eating the paschal lamb. Take one matzoh. place a little horseradish on one side and charoset on the other. Place another piece of matzoh on top. This is the Hillel sandwich. Eat beginning with the horseradish side and end with the charoset side. Go from the bitter taste of slavery to the sweet taste of recemption that is so sweet!
Note that the horseradish signifies the lamb. Yeshua. He ate of the bitter and brought us the sweet!

The feast! Time to eat!

After the feast, one of the children has already found the lost matzoh.
Tzaful! (hidden) The found matzoh is broken into pieces so that everyone may have a piece of it.
Jesus, at the his supper, used the afkomen to represent his body that was broken for the world.
At Passover, this is recited: "Blessed are you Lord our God, King of the universe, who brings forth bread from the earth."
Jesus said he is the bread of life. And if anyone eats of this bread he will live forever.
Yeshua was born in the city of bread, placed in an eating trough. He was broken and given to us to eat so we might no longer be slaves, but free from sin and live with him forever. 

Barukh attah Adonai eloneinu melekh ha-olam, ha-motzi lachem emet min ha-shamayim.
Blessed are you, Lord our God, King of the universe, who brings forth True Bread from Heaven.

Blessings for after the meal, a long prayer that thanks God for his blessings to his people.
Then the prayer of yearning for the soon appearance of Messiah.

Then the 3rd cup. Redemption. “He said, “If you listen carefully to the voice of the LORD your God and do what is right in his eyes, if you pay attention to his commands and keep all his decrees, I will not bring on you any of the diseases I brought on the Egyptians, for I am the LORD, who heals you.””
(Exodus 15:26 NIV)
The Cup of Redemption: The Cup of Blessing: With this cup Israel remembers their deliverance from 430 years of slavery, and their redemption from the plague of death by the blood of the first Passover Lamb.

“
Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you.This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father’s kingdom.””
(Matthew 26:27–29 NIV)

Jesus said he wouldn't drink again (the 4th cup!) until he drinks it anew with the disciples in his Father's kingdom.

Hallel!
The 4th cup. The cup of Elijah.
There is an empty place at the table. It's for Elijah.
A child is asked to open the door to welcome Elijah. ““See, I will send you the prophet Elijah before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes.”
(Malachi 4:5 NIV)

Then a song is sung: Elijah the Prophet, Elijah the Tishibite, Elijah the Gileadite.
Speedily in our days will come to us the Messiah, the son of David.

The 4th cup is of restoration. When all Israel will be saved it can be savored. It represents Exodus 6:6-7 when the Lord will acquire Israel as a nation.

Give thanks to the Lord for he is good, his steadfastness endures forever!
Hymns of thanksgiving are sung.

Nirtzah. Concllusion
Next year in Jerusalem!

[LIMS]

WOW! That was insightful. Brings a new meaning to Passover and what it means for us today.

(Psst... you should share it on ZB too). 

[Ruth Ann]

Glad it was helpful.

It's very long.

[hupo]

You know, RA,

You and colin just showed me what I believe... that the Passover festival is for all humanity and not just for the Jews.
When you mention all the signs, symbols and meanings in that age old story, it is clear that God is talking to all humanity

Maybe He wanted the Jewish people to show the way, be the tools of his plans (not that we're doing that very well!) but that was just the beginning of His plan, not the end

At any rate, that is the way I see it

So if Easter is what some celebrate, may God bless you this Easter

David

[Ruth Ann]

David,

Easter is just a pagan name for the day we remember our Lord's rising. But understand this. Our Savior's rising from the dead is our hope; it's the proof of our salvation. He foreshadowed what would happen when he raised Lazarus. Then a few days later he entered Jerusalem as the Messiah and a week later he was dead. He rose from the grave. Without that we would not have so much hope, I think.

But before Sunday, we remember his trial, his horrible suffering and his dying as he took our awful sin on himself.  God took our sin and died. It's beyond imagination.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f9WOFB8pYk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f9WOFB8pYk</a>

[LIMS]

And everybody said....

AAAAAAAAAMEN!

[hupo]

RA,

Thank you for that explanation.
Coming from you, someone I have met in person, makes it sound very real.
I must admit I do not understand the Resurrection. Oh, yes I have read what many/most Christians say but if I understand anything at all, it is on the intellectual level.
My non-Jewish friends tell me about it every year, even as you have and I respect that, especially coming from you and my friends

David

[Ruth Ann]

You honor me, David.

I pray the Lord will make you feel our Lord's resurrection in your heart, the place you know and feel  things.

[Aliva96]

good thread

there is so much foreshadow of the Messiah in a Messianic (Jewish) seder

Has Hupo ever attended one ?

some of the symbolism sends chills down your spine

for example the 3 pieces of bread - one broken, hidden, and returns

pierced and striped bread (of life)

drinking from the cup(s) ...  *not drink again ...

[hupo]

Aliva, What a question!

I've attended the Seder every year of my life.... if that is what you meant 

As the years go by I am more and more confident that the Seder message was meant for all humanity
In these very days we can see things unfolding in the Middle East countries

Freedom... the message to all of Mankind
It has been misused, misinterpreted, twisted and butchered in every which way, through the ages, but the message is very clear if we just care to look at it with the eyesight that God gave us... the spiritual eye sight that is heart based

and talking of symbolism... In the computer world we have the I/O (Input / Output) expression
Look at what we have in our own lives:

sIn was the cause for Mankind loosing it's freedom
sOn is the cause for that freedom to return!

David

[LIMS]

I LOVE IT!

[hupo]

Aliva

I just realized, going over the posts, that you meant a messianic Seder
Sorry about that

The answer in this case would be , yes I have. One of them was pretty badly done, but that was just the way they did it, not the substance

They mentioned the lamb-per-home that needed to be killed in order to save that family's life
The wine and matzah was indeed connected with Yeshua's request to drink his blood (wine) and eat his flesh (bread or matza)
The "wrapping" was different than what I am used to, especially the language (it was all in English)

The three Matzot were mentioned as the symbol of the trinity

So yes, what you wrote was pretty much in line with that experience

David

[a2jgrammy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1-NkicV2jQ&feature=share

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYEa4barYs8

on the last link you can watch all 5 by clicking on more

enjoy

[olivet]

Hupo

When you see the middle afikomen broken and hidden, remember Yeshua who dies on the cross, for all.  When you see, the red wine, spilled on the white plate, remember His blood shed in Jerusalem for all.  These are the elements of Communion, the Melchizadek offering to
Abraham and the elements of the Passover

[hupo]

Hupo

When you see the middle afikomen broken and hidden, remember Yeshua who dies on the cross, for all.  When you see, the red wine, spilled on the white plate, remember His blood shed in Jerusalem for all.  These are the elements of Communion, the Melchizadek offering to
Abraham and the elements of the Passover

 

[pegasusphm1]

Hupo

When you see the middle afikomen broken and hidden, remember Yeshua who dies on the cross, for all.  When you see, the red wine, spilled on the white plate, remember His blood shed in Jerusalem for all.  These are the elements of Communion, the Melchizadek offering to
Abraham and the elements of the Passover

Stellar Moment of his death the moon was in lunar eclipse (Blood)in the east at the foot of virgo,  and from the Moon the earth was in the heart of the Ram constellation.

There is also another aspect to this in historical context..

http://www.zenit.org/article-19341?l=english
One of the main Zadokite priest sects practiced a form or the last supper in anticipation of the coming Messiah..