Trinity!

[Ruth Ann]

David, I spent a good 2 hours in deep focused study and cross studying of the Bible this morning. On words like perfected and son of God and well, I think I already listed these things. The debate always makes me dig deep and learn more.

LIMS, the obstinate clinging to the belief that Jesus is just a super human and sin doesn't permeate every gene and God can't do more than we can think through...
That is perfect human reasoning and exactly what John and Peter and James and Paul spoke of int their letters. Actually, the very reason for the letters they wrote. It was always some person or group who were leading the people into heresy by twisting some part of the Gospel of Jesus. The Faith. It's a holy thing. The Faith. So important that everyone got it right that Paul had those he taught to memorize it word for word. Just to get it right. They didn't have the New TEstament then. Perhaps some letter from the apostles.

But Romans is amazing, isn't it. I have learned so much from Paul's letter to the Romans.

[LIMS]

Yes, it seems Paul was battling those even in his own day. Peter and Jude warned of those also. John too. So it wasn't until later- it was already THERE, tares ripening delusional doctrines among the brethren.

[Colin2000]

Hi LIMS,

That pathway is heresy of the highest order.  All men have sinned and it was you who added wasn't it that Paul states that we have all sinned and are imperfect!  JW's. in particular have closed their minds to sin and the possibility that Father, Son, HolyGhost are perfect and have always been perfect!

To spend three years with a heretic no matter how sincere she is is a time wasting wast of time!

No matter how good she is or how sincere she is she is blind to the Christian truth and has adopted a man made wisdom which has not got a scr** of revealed truth/Godly Revelation in it!

To separate Father Son or HolyGhost from each other is the base heresy that will lead to hell unless there is divine intervention now today or before she dies!  After she dies she is in Hell with no hope of salvation.  Lost in this world and in the world to come!

Hard words but sometime to preach hell-fire and retribution/damnation is the only answer.  Today's world will not agree with this!  Tough very Tough.  The Word is the same today and forever, no excuse we are stuck with it.  Also if we do not agree with this there here, we are guaranteed to come unstuck with this worldly wisdom attached to Creedal truth in Holy Scripture!

But isn't Jesus wonderful after the Holy boot up the A*** He loves us anyway,

Colin.

[hupo]

Hi LIMS,

That pathway is heresy of the highest order.  All men have sinned and it was you who added wasn't it that Paul states that we have all sinned and are imperfect!  JW's. in particular have closed their minds to sin and the possibility that Father, Son, HolyGhost are perfect and have always been perfect!

To spend three years with a heretic no matter how sincere she is is a time wasting wast of time!

No matter how good she is or how sincere she is she is blind to the Christian truth and has adopted a man made wisdom which has not got a scr** of revealed truth/Godly Revelation in it!

To separate Father Son or HolyGhost from each other is the base heresy that will lead to hell unless there is divine intervention now today or before she dies!  After she dies she is in Hell with no hope of salvation.  Lost in this world and in the world to come!

Hard words but sometime to preach hell-fire and retribution/damnation is the only answer.  Today's world will not agree with this!  Tough very Tough.  The Word is the same today and forever, no excuse we are stuck with it.  Also if we do not agree with this there here, we are guaranteed to come unstuck with this worldly wisdom attached to Creedal truth in Holy Scripture!

But isn't Jesus wonderful after the Holy boot up the A*** He loves us anyway,

Colin.

Colin,

You are a dear brother and that is why I feel I should tell you what is on my mind concerning this and other posts

What you wrote sounds pretty obnoxious, to say the least. It saddens me, especially coming from you Colin.

Point: If you are going to criticize anyone, please get the facts straight. JW do and believe many wrong things. Closing their mind to sin is NOT one of them!

Point: It is not the first time you call people heretics and tell us all about what will be their end. You are entitled to your view, of course, but I feel you are not saying all that through love. Am I wrong?

Point: How will these so called heretics know God unless we fulfill Scripture :-
Mat 28:19  Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20  teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."
Should we go around condemning people? Is this what we are supposed to do on this Earth? I somehow don't think so.

Here is more scripture to back up what I am trying to say
Rom 10:14  How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?
Rom 10:15  And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!"

Point: Can I suggest we ease off on the criticism/judgment  as I am sure God can manage that very well Himself?
Maybe we should concentrate on trying to get to these "heretics" and do what scripture is telling us? How does that song go..... "Go tell it on the mountains, over the hills and everywhere....."

Point: No I don't think it's a waste of time. In fact she had stopped the studies, maybe something was getting through which she didn't like. I don't know. I learned a lot. I feel strengthened by it all. Maybe, just maybe, something got through......  Isn't all this worth it?

Last point: I was going over and over this, didn't know if I should even be writing this, but I feel it is too important to just let by
Please forgive me if I've hurt you in any way. That was never my intention in writing the above

Be blessed Colin, even as you are blessing us here in this forum

David

[Colin2000]

Hi David,

I have attempted to write a long answer re this predictable attempt to move this debate onto "Thou shalt not judge or make judgements!"  Phooey!

But there was an attack which grounded my reply to you!  All security is back on line and it hasn't damaged my computer!

I haven't time to type it again so later.

Enough to be said that JW's. do sin by their non acceptance of Jesus as part of The Trinity!  That is their sin and it is a big one bordering on denial of the HolyGhost!

The point I will make will be just that and the fact that three years wasted on a heretic is not good use of a Christians time in my opinion for she or them are lost in this world and the one to come.

Why give a heretic centre stage on a Christian Forum and then defend her/them for the heretics they are?

Yours in Christ Jesus,

Colin.

[hupo]

Colin,

I said what I had to say, which was hard enough.
I see no reason for keeping this debate alive. I shall read your response of course but we obviously disagree and I'm quite content to leave it this way.
So... unless there are questions to be answered or a response needed, I shall leave this topic for the sake of peace in this forum

I could of course be totally wrong in my view, but right now this is the way I see things

Hope your machine doesn't get attacked again. Bad stuff any way you look at it 

Yours in Yeshua

David

[Colin2000]

Hi All,

Returning to the three doctrines in the Church Article by Griffith Thomas of Personality, Deity, and Procession it is usual to touch on the Personality of the Spirit.  And we have explored person in relation to the Godhead also Deity in our Doctrine of three in one and one in three too!

But Procession, now there we have a new concept for me to look at personally!

Procession: A dictionary definition: A large company of people or vehicles moving forward in order!

Griffith Thomas says, "The doctrine of the Procession of the Holy Spirit from the Father and from the Son, and it is important to obtain a true idea of the meaning of The Western Church in expressing and insisting on this doctrine.  On the one side the Spirit is associated with the Father as sent, given, and proceeding (Matt.10:20 ESV.; John.14:16 ESV. John.14:26 ESV; John.15:26 ESV.). 

On the other hand, He is associated with the Son, being called the Spirit of Christ (Rom.8:9 ESV.);  described as sent by the Son from the Father (John.15:26 ESV.); 

bestowed by the Son on the Apostles (John.20:22 ESV.; Acts.2:33 ESV.);

and called the Spirit of Jesus (Acts.14:7 ESV.[Here quote is RV.]);

So that, in the statement of the Creed, the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, ...............
[The Principles of Theology, W.H. Griffith Thomas, Vine Books, London, 1930/1978, P96.]

A way of thinking in the 1930's. on how Spirit linked the other two parts of the Trinity together in a concept of procession from one element to another in system thinking!  Almost flow circuitry in the understanding of what/Who went where perhaps!

Yours in Christ,

Colin.

PS. I have not checked the Bible Reference yet, if some our faulty  tell me and I will correct them!   

[olivet]

Luke 1 explains it all...God chose Miriam or Mary, the Holy Spirit overshadowed her and a Holy child was born, named Jesus..........He is the Son of a Holy God in human flesh who came to suffer for our sins.  Jesus was crucified, resurrected and ascended into heaven from whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.  We worship Jesus as Our Risen Lord and Saviour

[Colin2000]

Hi Olivet,

A timely reminder that the mechanics of The LORD JESUS' Coming is rehearsed in Luke.1:1-56 ESV.

Had not thought of Luke re Trinity but a good background historic record in his recording of events.

I still stick with John.15:26 ESV! Here Jesus speaks, He refers to His Father who will send you and I The Holy Spirit!  Trinity is present in this verse!

Yours in Christ Jesus not only Son of God but God Himself incarnate yet still Spiritual in Being!!!,

Colin.