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Author Topic: Jesus is the promised Messiah  (Read 117 times)
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PetriFB
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« on: Jul 31 2011 05:27:55 AM »

Why the Jews don't believe that Yeshua (Jesus) is the Messiah? Jewish rabbis and Talmud's teachings tell us why they don't believe that Yeshua is the Messiah. Jewish rabbis say that there are many reasons why Yeshua can't be the promised Messiah. However, if we research the Scriptures (Tanakh - Bible), so we will see that Yeshua is the Messiah.


Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication; and they shall look unto Me because they {That is, the nations. See verse 9.} have thrust him through; and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his first-born. JPS

KJV: And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Talmud (Sukkah 52 a) says about Zec12:10 that it means the Messiah: "In the right is certainly He who explains that as a reason is killing of the Messiah, the son of Joseph, for that suits the verse well, 'They will look on me, the one they have pierced. And they will mourn for him..."

Rabbi Rashi has said that a common view among the rabbis is that Zec 12:10 refer to the Messiah: "Our rabbis have interpreted that this refers to the Messiah, the son of Joseph.”

Rabbi Moses Alsheikh has also said that Zec 12:10 speaks about the Messiah:"They will look on me, for they raise their eyes on me in perfect repentance, when they see Him whom they have pierced, the Messiah, the son of Joseph; for our blessed rabbis have said that He will take on Him all the guilt of Israel, and that He will then be killed in the war of bringing about atonement, quite like Israel would have pierced Him, for because of their sins. He has died; and so that full atonement would belong to them, they repent and look on this blessed and say that nobody else can forgive them, who mourns for him, who died for the sake of their sins: this is what means 'they will look on me".

Old Jewish learned have said very clearly that Zec 12:10 speak about the Messiah. Only Yeshua has filled the signs of Zec 12, because on Calvary Yeshua was pierced for the sake of sins of mankind. Rabbi Moses Alsheikh also believed that Zec 12:10 speaks about the Messiah, and that they will look on Messiah, whom they have pierced. Then rabbi said that they (Jews) will look on Him who died for the sake of their sins! Yeshua died for the sake of sins. From Talmud can be found very interesting teaching:

Talmud (Sanhedrin 97. b) "The son of David will arrive during a generation which is either completely righteous or completely sinful; during a time that is completely righteous, such as has been written Isa 60:21, all your people will be righteous and possess the land forever; or during a time when all people are sinful, as has been written Isa 59:16, “He saw that there was no one, He was appalled that there was no one to intervene… in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven (Dan 7:13), and it has been written, gentle and riding on a donkey: if they are righteous, He will come with the clouds of heaven, if not, gentle and riding on a donkey.”

As we have seen before that Yeshua's contemporaries said to Him that He is son of David. Yeshua rode with a donkey to Jerusalem and will come with the clouds of heaven after that when Jews believe in Him. Old Jews learned recognized very clearly the Messiah. All identifying marks suits to Yeshua, because He is the Messiah.

Whole article: http://koti.phnet.fi/petripaavola/YeshuapromisedMessiah.html

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Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Chen v’Chesed Hashem and Shalom Hashem from Elohim Avinu and Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach Yehoshua Adoneinu.
hupo
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« Reply #1 on: Jul 31 2011 11:35:12 AM »

Shalom PetriFB

I'm not sure what you are saying here

Are you asking why Jews don't believe in Yeshua?
or
Are you telling us why Yeshua IS who he says he is?

Why Jews don't believe in Yeshua is a complex issue
First, A Jew who believes in Yeshua is considered a Jew no longer! My own friends tell me I am not a Jew now. They don't mind me follwing Yeshua but they do say that according to their understanding, I am no longer a Jew. Personally I feel more Jewish than ever since meeting with Yeshua.

So, there are Jews who believe in Yeshua. Some will admit it openly while others will "stay in the closet" till things cool down.

As for the second part of your post, I can easily agree with your view even though I am not so well versed

David
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Isa 40:31  but they who wait for the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings like eagles; they shall run and not be weary; they shall walk and not faint.
Ruth Ann
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« Reply #2 on: Jul 31 2011 05:39:52 PM »

Ahh! David! There are closet believers??
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hupo
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« Reply #3 on: Aug 01 2011 12:26:37 PM »

Yes there are!
It is not comfortable, to put it mildly, to be a follower of Yeshua in Israel!
Many are under cover. I'm hearing of Rabbis in Meah-Shaarim (The Orthodox strong hold) that believe in Yeshua.
I don't know if you've heard of what people have to go though when they are found to be Yeshua followers. The town of Arad is a center for these "activities" where chess clubs are burned, harassments of all kinds are a daily thing. The police stand by and watch doing nothing.
I am very fortunate to be living in a pluralistic society. They don't like my views but they accept me having them. If I leave my village and talk about this, I would need to watch my back.

David
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Isa 40:31  but they who wait for the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings like eagles; they shall run and not be weary; they shall walk and not faint.
Ruth Ann
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« Reply #4 on: Aug 01 2011 12:37:32 PM »

I've read about this in Israel, David. I haven't experienced it but have read about horrible treatment of Christians.

That's why I keep you in my prayers as God reminds me.
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“I want to live my life so that every morning
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« Reply #5 on: Aug 07 2011 04:50:50 PM »


We've not yet reached the point of actual brutal persecution here. It's usually small individual persecution like somebody at work doesn't like your belief so they're going to make it hard on you or stuff like that.

Some of us may undergo brutal persecution while some others may be blessed with little less. I think not every Christian is going to have a cookie-cutter experience but there will be hard times in different ways in their lives, IMO. But the end-times seem to indicate it's going to be very difficult more than anytime in history for believers in Yeshua.

What say you?
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Colin2000
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« Reply #6 on: Aug 31 2011 03:57:54 AM »

Hi,

The Book of Martyrs isn't closed!

Satan and his minions just can not stand a Christian with a conscience!

We get in the way of their little pleasures you know!

Yours in Christ,

Colin.
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"Jesus is Lord!"

The LORD, Isaiah, Isaiah.1:18 ESV.

Jesus, John, John 3:3 ESV.

Jesus, John, John 3:16-18 ESV.

The LORD, Isaiah, Isaiah 55:12 KJV.
Ruth Ann
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« Reply #7 on: Aug 31 2011 10:49:46 AM »

Jesus' disciples are being tortured and murdered all over the world. In the West we have been protected by our freedoms to a great degree.

But I've seen an escalation of hatred from many minority groups as they have gained a foothold in the culture and society politically. Actually, a chokehold.

But even with that we haven't seen much in the way of martydom in the Western world.

I sill say, if you want a taste of it, just go out on the streets where Jewish people or primarily Muslim people live in America. Start to hand out tracts about Jesus and his gift to the world. You will quickly see how 'free' you are to exercise your constitutional rights.

We did this in a Jewish community and were spit on, screamed at with horrible profanity, and one of us were punched in the head.

So, martyrdom will come to us eventually. But we don't have that problem. yet.
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« Reply #8 on: Aug 31 2011 07:41:01 PM »

Yeshua

Does Judaism have nothing to do with the prophets and the Feasts that Israelis deny their own King
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Colin2000
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« Reply #9 on: Aug 31 2011 09:03:35 PM »

The blind leading the blind.

The trees clap their hands.

The Jews clap their feet!

Interesting times we live in!?!

Colin.
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"Jesus is Lord!"

The LORD, Isaiah, Isaiah.1:18 ESV.

Jesus, John, John 3:3 ESV.

Jesus, John, John 3:16-18 ESV.

The LORD, Isaiah, Isaiah 55:12 KJV.
hupo
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« Reply #10 on: Sep 01 2011 02:34:05 AM »

Yeshua

Does Judaism have nothing to do with the prophets and the Feasts that Israelis deny their own King


SOME Israelis, Olivet....some.... ok, most....  Grin

But will come a day ... when all will know God and there will be no need for teaching each other (forgot where this paraphrased verse is. sorry)

David
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Isa 40:31  but they who wait for the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings like eagles; they shall run and not be weary; they shall walk and not faint.
Ruth Ann
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« Reply #11 on: Sep 01 2011 11:37:26 AM »

 Huh “They will not teach every man his fellow citizen, Every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ For all will know me, From the least of them to the greatest of them.”
(Hebrews 8:11 WEB)
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“I want to live my life so that every morning
when I wake up Satan says, “Oh, no! She’s awake!”


hupo
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« Reply #12 on: Sep 01 2011 02:38:27 PM »

Thanks RA,

That was the verse   thumbsup thumbsup

David
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Isa 40:31  but they who wait for the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings like eagles; they shall run and not be weary; they shall walk and not faint.
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