Where is the Ark of the Covenant

[olivet]

But the guess from here -- especially considering the history, and all the incredible tension over this spot -- is that the Ark is indeed buried somewhere at Temple Mount -- so hot a spot, in fact, that many believe a third Temple will one day be built there, announcing the end times; both Israelis and Palestinians claim sovereignty over it; it is a central reason for conflict; it is certainly a spot so holy to both Jews and Muslims (Mohammed was said to have ascended from here) that any destruction or confiscation or reconstruction could provoke a nuclear war. Moreover, some even postulate that it colocated with the original Mount Zion. It is a spot where some Jews believe the world was created and expanded into its current form. Due to the extreme political sensitivity of the site, no real archaeological excavations have even been conducted on the Temple Mount itself. According to the Jewish library, an archaeologist named Leen Ritmeyer claims to have found the spot on the Mount where the Holy of Holies was located during the First Temple period. "In the precise center of that spot is a section of bedrock cut out in dimensions that may match those of the Ark," we are told.

And we don't know anything about that.

What we do know is that at the Mount are caves, reservoirs, and chambers that can't be excavated due to destruction it would cause to the holy site. One, known as Cistern 1 (located under the northern side of an upper platform) is speculated to have had a function connected with the altar of the Second Temple (and possibly of the earlier Temple). There are also vaulted rooms that have not been searched. Some of the caves run for miles.

It's a good guess -- the best guess -- that the Ark is somewhere below in such a chamber or cave. For certain: the spiritual force attached to such a relic would be difficult to imagine, as would the ramifications of its discovery. In the Christian era, the Blessed Mother stood as an "ark" when her womb held the Child. Carrying the Savior of mankind, she became the new "Holy of Holies," as revealed near Old Jerusalem at Bethlehem.

[hupo]

The fact that anyone is willing to kill (that's what war is about) over a material thing, be it as "holy" as it may, is a clear breaking of the first commandment.
My instincts tell me that we are all, (Jews, Muslims, Christians and anyone else involved) using these material "things" for political ends.
To my mind God is probably looking on all of this with a big sad sigh.
I don't believe God intended for this to be the outcome of His creation

and so the question arises..... should I be fighting to the death for my country?
Is "country" just a piece of land, or does it encompass a whole set of material AND spiritual "things"?
It's a terrible question because if I don't (fight), I will not exist!
and no..... there are no simple, black or white answers to this

[olivet]

People, places and things are not merely material objects, they have connections to creation and many have direct annointings from God such as the Ark of the Covenant where the God of Israel dwelled.

David danced before the Lord and sought to build Him a permanent dwelling place on the earth.

The Ark had to be handled in a special way or there were consequences.

But man made in the image of God was worthy of the cross of Christ.

So they cannot be interchanged

[Ruth Ann]

If you look into the OT, God told Israel to fight. He told them to kill.

War is not wrong in itself in this fallen world. War sometimes saves millions of people.

It takes war to win peace.

So, in my opinion, David, you and all Israel must fight for your country. It is a good country as far as countries go. But God told us you would be a nation again. I don't think anything will stop Israel from fighting. It's just a fact according to God's prophecy, I think.

At the same time, I would fight for my country. Might have to the way things are going.

[hupo]

People, places and things are not merely material objects, they have connections to creation and many have direct annointings from God such as the Ark of the Covenant where the God of Israel dwelled......

Would that mean they are holy, as is the ark of the covenant?
and if it is holy, should we pray to it, worship it? idolize it in any way?

[hupo]

If you look into the OT, God told Israel to fight. He told them to kill ..........

True, the OT does speak of this
Ecc 3:3 (ESV) a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
Ecc 3:8 (ESV) a time to love, and a time to hate; a time for war, and a time for peace.

You have to admit that is very important we know what we are fighting for (when we do)

[olivet]

David

It is obvious from the Scriptures the Ark of the Covenant was not an it.  It is obvious from the Scriptures that the consecrated bread and wine was not an it, it is obvious that the Mt of transfiguration was not any mountjain, it is obvious that the blood of Jesus was spilled in Jerusalem.  There are haunted places and Holy places

[hupo]

David

It is obvious from the Scriptures the Ark of the Covenant was not an it.  It is obvious from the Scriptures that the consecrated bread and wine was not an it, it is obvious that the Mt of transfiguration was not any mountjain, it is obvious that the blood of Jesus was spilled in Jerusalem.  There are haunted places and Holy places

Yes I understand, but how should I treat these holy places?
Should I, fight to the death over such places?
Are they more important than human lives, for instance?
This is actually the basis for the so-called Israel-Palestinian conflict (Actually a religious battle)
People on both sides are prepared to kill over a stone, a wall and a mountain
Is this the way God intended it?

[Colin2000]

Hi David,

Against what Olivet has posted I would say that The Ark was and is a very real and Holy Artifact which once sat in The Holy of Holy's in The Temple!

Whether or not it exists now on Earth is another matter?

It has been replaced by The Bread and wine of The Sacrament of Eucharist anyway.  Whether The LORD inhabits it today in the Bread/flesh, and Wine/Blood depends on which Church you attend?

Sufficient to say, yours in Christ,

Colin.

[hupo]

So again I ask,

How should one deal with these real-or-not, holy-or-not places and "things"?

Or to put it another way: what does "holy" mean in practice?

[Colin2000]

Hi David,

For this I use the definition of the word in the English Dictionary!

Will come back with it later when time and health allows!

Colin.

[hupo]

Colin, just get better

Everything else can wait!

[Ruth Ann]

I think holy means separated for God's service? That's what I seem to remember.

I think that makes us believers holy. Our purpose is to serve.

Back to what you fight for, we must obey our governments so if our govt says to fight, we fight.

Colin, praying you get well, brother.

[hupo]

Back to what you fight for, we must obey our governments so if our govt says to fight, we fight.

That is open for debate of course...
It would make the Nazi soldiers right by doing what their government told them....or Assad's army in Syria, for that matter.....
I don't know.... it just doesn't sound that simple....

[a2jgrammy]

Praying for you Colin, may your healing be speedy!


Exodus 3:5
 5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

This is the first place in our English bibles I find 'holy'...

so has the meaning changed?

I think it means respect, honor as we serve God, as we are in His presence.

We want to be 'holy' or pleasing to him.

I don't believe a relic is to be worshipped, but I do think they are a testament to God and should be treated with respect and not trashed or thrown aside.

But that doesn't happen it seems.  Something is found, and researched and then it becomes  an object to worship.

[Colin2000]

A good incite into Holy Friends,

Now if I may explore this concept please,

 Holy:

1.  Pure in heart.

2.  Set aside for a Sacred use.

3.  Holiness:  State of being holy:  Goodness!

[Chambers Compact Dictionary, Editor, A.M.Macdonald.1969, Reprint 1977. Edinburgh].

The LORD is pure in Heart.  His Presence is Sacred and He sets Himself/His Sacred Presence Aside for that purpose!

Goodness and Mercy is His for all our days! Holiness!!!...!

So we must only take into His Presence purity,

1.  But we can not  do this can we?

2.  The LORD'S Purity used to reside in The Holy of Holy's in The Temple in The Ark of His First Covenant with The Children of Israel!

3.  And what was contained in that Holy Relic?

1.  The Ten Commandments of Torah for starters.

2.  A door/The Doorway into the Presence of The LORD!

3.  Where is it now?

1.  Again for starters, Jesus!

2.  Jesus' Word to be found in Holy Word/The Bible!

3.  Jesus' Presence in our Hearts/HolyGhost Presence!

______________________________

So we must take into His Presence Purity of Mind, Soul, Spirit?

But we can not can we!

But He can can't He!

HolyGhost Presence:  Is Jesus' Presence:  Is Father's Presence!

Yours in His Everlovingtenderkindness,

Colin.

PS.  I started this post out conscience of an Angina pain in my heart!  I finished without that angina pain in my heart!  Isn't the LORD a wonder to behold!

[a2jgrammy]

 

PTL you are recovered and PTL for a awesome post Colin!

[olivet]

Colin

I am so relieved that you feel better

[Ruth Ann]

I'm so pleased you feel better, Colin. Please stay well. Don't forget your tablets. 

Your post concerning the Ark of the Covenant was good. You constantly exhibit great incite* insight into God. Thanks for that.

And I'm thankful that you're are ours in His everlovingtenderkindness. 

I especially liked this:

So we must take into His Presence Purity of Mind, Soul, Spirit?

But we can not can we!

But He can can't He!

HolyGhost Presence:  Is Jesus' Presence:  Is Father's Presence!

*maybe that word fits!